MindBenders - Parliamentary Procedure

Mind Benders and Brain Teasers:

This is where we will post questions and situations that will test your knowledge of parliamentary procedure. If you have a parliamentary Mind Bender or Brain Teaser that you would like to share, send it to mindbenders@parlipro.org and we will print the best ones here. Unless otherwise noted, the parliamentary authority is Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR), 10th edition. The informal parliamentary opinions expressed here follow general principles of parliamentary law and Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (RONR), 10th edition, and are based solely on the brief summary of facts presented, without the benefit of having reviewed the bylaws and other governing documents. An association's own bylaws, covenants, Articles of Incorporation, Special Rules of Order, and local or state laws will supersede what RONR says. A significant difference in facts could result in different conclusions being reached. If there is much at stake, readers are encouraged to seek a formal written parliamentary opinion from a Professional Registered Parliamentarian, which includes a thorough review of the organization's bylaws and governing documents. Nothing here should be construed as an interpretation of statutory law.

Answer to Mind Bender for April 2004:

All references are to RONR 10th ed

The quote from the minutes:

"Mrs. Birch moved not to approve the agenda. The motion was adopted and the agenda was not approved."

Technically, there is nothing wrong with these minutes if they reflect what was actually done at the meeting. However, the adoption of the motion is the same as if no motion were adopted at all, i.e. the agenda is not adopted. Refer to RONR 10th ed p. 99-100:

"A motion whose only effect is to propose that the assembly refrain from doing something should not be offered if the same result can be accomplished by adopting no motion at all."

Also, refer to RONR 10th ed p. 100:

"It is preferable to avoid a motion containing a negative statement even in cases where it would have a meaning, since members may become confused as to the effect of voting for or against such a motion. Rather than moving, for example, that the association go on record as 'not in favor of the proposed public bond issue,' it should be moved that the association 'oppose' or 'declare its opposition to' the bond issue."

Thus, the following is preferable:
"It is moved and seconded that the agenda be adopted. Is there discussion? Hearing none, those in favor of adopting the agenda, say 'aye'...those opposed, say 'no'. The 'noes' have it and the agenda is not adopted."

The minutes would reflect this as follows:
"Mrs. Birch moved the adoption of the agenda. The agenda was not adopted."

Note: If adopted by a majority vote, the agenda can be amended later in the meeting by a two-thirds vote. Unless a proposed agenda is actually adopted, however, it is not binding on the assembly and is merely a guideline for use by the chair and the members during the meeting. Refer to RONR 10th ed p. 363.